April 4, 2014

A public private post to Madame OB

Note, this is my response to a comment on this post and it is way too long for the comment box, so I am offering my rebuttal as a post. Thank you for your indulgence.


Madame OB, as much as I enjoy your writing, I do have access to other websites on the internet, and some of them are also left-leaning. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is not all about you or your little domain. Just as you stereotype "righties", I stereotype the lefties who comment on various websites based on emotion, and run away and hide when confronted with facts, or result to name calling or trying to obfuscate the facts. I will aknowledge certain individuals who comment at your blog fit this profile.

As far as the horrible GOP doing all they can to oppose Obama and his agenda; I hate to break it to you Honey, but that is politics.  There is little difference in the GOP actions in the past 5 years and that of the Democrats in Congress when W occupied the oval office.  Remember how they were for the Iraq war before they were against it? Grow up.

More importantly, we as individuals are always in lockstep with those who share the politics we believe.  Since I have strong “rightie” leanings, are you in any way surprised I agree with those who also are small “L” libertarians?  As an aside, while I have offered plenty of posts criticizing the GOP, A steady reading of your writings demonstrates your positions are pretty much straight out of the Democrat Party talking points, nary a criticism of any Democrat leader comes to mind.  Just who is in lockstep here? But again, I would expect one with a left-leaning political bent to actually be left-leaning in her writings. It would be silly for me to complain that you never support Sarah Palin. It is just as ridiculous for you to complain I am not behind Obama and his agenda.

My objections against Obama and his policies have nothing to do with race, or party, but a total disagreement that America needed a fundamental change. It is of little wonder I oppose the expansion of government, the idea that the Feds can force someone to buy something, the weakening of the dollar, using the IRS to attack political opponents, running guns to Mexican drug lords, allowing voter intimidation, and massive foreign policy mistakes. Which of those programs do you think I would support? I was just as opposed to HillaryCare as I am to ObamaCare. I have equal disdain for RomneyCare and anything the Heritage Foundation might have proposed regarding universal government healthcare. Further, I would have opposed the similar plan championed by Democrats going back to FDR. The massive increase in debt and tax increases are opposite of my firm economic beliefs. I do not support the Ryan budget because I know politicians will not make the promised cuts a decade from now. I don't think the Government should be picking private companies to feed tax dollars (Solyndra) and I do not want my energy prices to necessarily skyrocket. So just which of Obama’s programs do you think I would get behind? To imply I am but a mind-numbed robot following in lockstep with the nefarious leaders of some political machine is insulting. It is not just those of the political left who can think, analyze, and draw our own conclusions.

Do I have a universal difference in opinion with Obama, Pelosi, Reid, the Clintons  and yes, Madame OB?  Certainly.  That does not make me an acolyte of the Koch Brothers.  Nor does your adherence to politics I find mind-boggling indicate you are dancing at the strings of George Soros. I am certain we are all capable of independent thought.

I welcome a diversity of thought. Dialogue and argument and the Socratic Method are what help us learn. Unfortunately, I see an increasingly hysterical response from many on the left that tends to stifle argument and differing opinions. This is a historical tendency that permeates those of the left from the French Revolution, to the Chinese Communists, to the Soviet Bloc, to modern Cuba and Venezuela. We see this attitude in leaders of the Climate Change movement who want to jail “deniers” or Bill Ayers' infamous belief it will be necessary to confine and re-educate those who would oppose the vision he has for America. So you may ridicule my position on forcing employers to offer certain benefits. (I noticed you skipped the part of my position where I maintained it is silly for employers to not offer contraceptive benefits to employees in the comments to this post at your site.). I am OK with that. I am a big boy. 

I advise you to suck it up.  Thank the stars that America is a place where we are all allowed differing opinions. Be thankful that we live in a place without fear of the thought police forcing us into lockstep -- at least for now.

39 comments:

Fuzzy Curmudgeon said...

Responding to people who believe in unicorns and fairies -- not to mention single-payer health plans -- is generally viewed as a waste of time. But nicely done nevertheless.

I'll bet OB never went dutch treat in her life.

Joe said...

I know, I might as well waste my time arguing with the rainclouds.

CnC said...

Damnnnnnn. I was going to try and make a few points here Joe but you pretty much covered everything.
I will say I have agreed with Obama a couple of times, make that three.

When he continued Bush's drone strike program.

When he used information made possible by programs instituted by Bush to get Bin Laden.

When he called Kanye West a jackass.

Joe said...

Go ahead and throw in your two cents CnC. I could always use the comments from someone who does not suffer from verbosity and is able to clearly express an opinion.

Erin O'Brien said...

Thanks for the response, Hoose.

I'm trying to decide whether or not I like designation of Madame OB better than The O'Brien (I fielded that one over at Kim Crawford's site a while back).

As for getting in line and name calling, I try to avoid both, but you do not. This is the sort of thing that gets you into trouble, Hoose: The great (slut) women's rights advocate ...

Equating women's rights as sluts rights because Rushbo used that designation regarding Fluke (or Fluck in your vernacular) turns you into a dittohead and a name-caller--sort of like a double-header.

Sorry, honey, but that's the way it is.

And then there's this, " ... it is silly for employers to not offer contraceptive benefits to employees .." Good for you, but what about the issue at hand? Should secular corporations be exempted from laws based on the religious beliefs of their owners? That is what the Hobby Lobby case is about. But what do you hone in on? The "sluts" and their BC instead of the real issue.

As for this statement, "I'll bet OB never went dutch treat in her life."

That is just dead wrong.

Joe said...

In the interest of fairness you should point out that "slut" was actually marked out. It was both a joke and a poke. You may take it as you like. In addition, the "slut" slur/joke does not appear in the comment you quote above.

Second, you would make a grave mistake assuming you know my position on women's rights. ObamaCare is about liberty, about a government telling individual Americans they HAVE to buy something, under penalty of law. Such totalitarian measures must be fought by any means available. Economic slavery is slavery nonetheless.

You are really naive to think the Hobby Lobby case is about religion. That is but a means to an end, and a byproduct of poorly written regulation (not legislation). The ACA makes no mention of contraception -- it is purely the whim of Sabellius. She has also made exceptions for religious objections of some parties, why not all? Aren't the Liberals all about fairness?

More to the point, the frequent and constant attacks on ObamaCare, (which a vast majority of Americans dislike), is no different than the ongoing and never ending attacks on the 2nd Amendment (which most Americans support the right to possess and own a forearm) by the gun control crowd. I suspect the "you lost move on" sentiment would be a problem with you on that front.

Rita said...

I used to visitation liberal blogger who for awhile was able to at least somewhat logically present her argument.

Then she called me a "teabagger". When I attempted to explain how that disgusting term which the left uses at the tip of their tongue was, she went off the rails.

The next day she posted probably the most vile post I had ever read. Mind you, I had called her NO name whatsoever. I just took exception with her giving me one.

I read liberal sites and blogs. But I no longer post a comment to any. There are some that do nothing but spew hatred.

They are all EXTREMELY tolerant. As long as your view matches theirs.

Just for fun I'm included a list of things that set their hair on fire.

Dick Cheney
Sarah Palin (as you noted Joe)
George Bush
Iraq War
Abortions
Free birth control
Planned Parenthood
Dr. Ben Carson
Herman Cain
Rush Limbaugh
Glenn Beck
Koch Brothers

Anyone want to join in?

Ed Bonderenka said...

Hobby Lobby is a private corporation held by five family members who share the same belief system.
What makes it a secular corporation?
There is nothing secular about my life, I can't split me in half.
My "house" is not secular and their business holding, which finances so many ministries, is not secular either.

Anonymous said...

extracted from Madam OB Blog.

Anonymous said...
"The thing is, if Mr. Obama's opponents to his right insist on deliberately including well-known and easily disproven lies in their rhetorical palette, only fools and half-wits are going to listen. "


MR

As fine an articulation of what I shall now label "Corporate Conservatism" as has ever been written.

The fools and half-wits are their target audience. The CC's cynically understand that they are passionately paranoid, intellectually lazy and easily separated from their personal fortunes no matter how large or small.
RJ

I am beginning to think that RJ and MR are Pelosi and Reed’s love child

JOG


Rita said...

So JOG, you wanna hang out with that site for what purpose?

No thanks. I have to listen to enough of that intolerance on my TV.

Anonymous said...

Rita
I no longer comment over there. I don't mind an argument over facts versus opinion, but there is no middle ground, no concept of neither party is correct.
JOG

CnC said...

Hate Speech = if you disagree with the left.

CnC said...

I don't know when we crossed over the threshold of Sodom and Gomorrah. Even the lefties like Erin probably know deep down inside that her side has drug us down to some level that we will never recover from.
Our guilt will be that we stood on the sidelines so long that we allowed them to do it.
When I look at the damage that Obama and his minions have done, I'm not sure that we can do anything to repair that damage.
Even when or if Dear Leader leaves power, his appointees will still be in power and will still continue to rape the Constitution and I don't know how that can be repaired.
I enjoyed my time in DC last week but it was tempered with the knowledge that freedom is a dying luxury. If we could just divide the country and let the left have a section just for them. How long would it be before they came crawling to our border for aid?
Not long I'm thinking.

Anonymous said...

Pretty late to this thread but I was just rolling some of the ideas expressed around in my head and had a question. I'll ask it of Joe but all you other guys join on in if you are so inclined. Joe, Do you feel enslaved when you pay the fee for your auto license plate in order to drive on public roads? (Obviously assuming you have an auto)

Randy Johnson

CnC said...

Uhhhhhh, hmmm I guess he thought he had a point.

Erin O'Brien said...

Ed: Individuals incorporate their businesses in order to make it an entity separate from themselves.

If someone slips and falls in a Hobby Lobby store, Hobby Lobby gets sued, not the Green family. The Green family's assets are, indeed, separate and protected. That's how corporations work.

Erin O'Brien said...

"you would make a grave mistake assuming you know my position on women's rights."

I read what I read. Whether you "crossed out" the slut portion or not, you represent yourself with it and clearly meant for everyone to see it.

As for the "joke." Hilarious.

Now then feel free to refer me to a post in which you properly articulate your position on women's rights.

Anonymous said...

Randy your point is easily debunked. I do not have to own a car or buy plates. I am not legally forced to have auto insurance if I do not own a car.

Joe

Anonymous said...

Erin

You are the one who takes pictures of the shrubs while visiting the redwood forest.

You may not have liked my pointed joke. I bet someone smiled. Say did you laugh when Bill Maher, David Letterman, and Tina Fey made fun of Sarah Palin? I missed your outrage post when they were talking about screwing her teenage daughter

Hmmm, I guess it all depends on who is being made fun of

Joe

CnC said...

We are not required by law to own a car, we are ordered by the Dear Leader to buy healthcare. That's the difference.

Erin O'Brien said...

Sorry, Hoose. No score. I laugh like hell over some of SNL's skits poking fun at Obama. One of their James Carville spoofs had me doubled over--and make no mistake, I love Carville.

Really good humor is based in truth. That's why it's funny. Calling a woman a slut isn't humor. It's calling her a slut.

Now then, aren't you going to school me on your honest thoughts regarding women's issues?

CnC said...

I didn't mean to parrot you Joe, I failed to update the page before I posted that last comment.

Erin O'Brien said...

"You are the one who takes pictures of the shrubs while visiting the redwood forest."

The problem with vague statements like that, Joe, is that they mean nothing unless you back them up. For that statement to have any relevance, you'd have to quote or link something I wrote that supports it. Think back to ninth grade English comp: show, don't tell.

Anonymous said...

@Joe-

Perhaps my choice of cars was a poor one but I wasn't looking to be debunked. I'm trying to understand the resistance to the individual mandate. It just seems to me that citizens routinely modify behavior due to gov't regs and don't become outraged. Is it simply a matter of personal freedom/choice or is there another factor at work here?

Anonymous said...

All ACA is going to do is make a ton of money for insurance companies. Take the time to read the bill, which congress didn't bother doing and ask yourself, what rational thinking person would thing this would ever work. Health Care is an issue but this cure is worse than the disease.

JOG

Anonymous said...

thing = think

JOG

Joe said...

Randy,

yes,for me the individual mandate is an affront to my small government (note: not NO government) political philosophy.

Never before has the Federal Government mandate the people have to buy something. There is no option. All other economic activity is optional (stick with me here on a macro scale), but not the purchase of health insurance. We are told what to buy, and there is no choice but tax evasion. This never before requirement is compounded by the notion the feds are also telling private businesses what benefits they must offer their employees.

Where does it stop? What if the Feds were to mandate we all must buy a GM product whe nwe next buy a car in order to recoup their investment in General Motors? Or as the Justice quipped, can the Government force us to eat asparagus? Any time w egive up freedom it is a problem. There were ways to help the unfortunate without forcing the majority into a system they do not want, do not like, and never asked for.

Joe said...

Erin,

1. Why do I say you focus on the small stuff? I have written more than 1,800 words on this subject and you have focused on one of them.

2. No one asked you if you found SNL skits about Obama or Carville funny. I asked where was your outrage over this

http://youtu.be/vEvkOPidWkY
or this

http://twitchy.com/2012/06/28/left-attacks-sarah-palins-slut-daughters-and-retard-son-after-she-tweets-about-scotus-ruling/
or this

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/bill-maher-calling-sarah-palin-c-totally-limbaugh-calling-sandra-fluke-slut-article-1.1039705

or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLeGQr9TK6g

Save your faux outrage.

Anonymous said...

@Joe and JOG-

Thanks for your replies. Just for clarification I suppose I should go on the record in this forum as being a critic of "Obamacare" myself but for different reasons. I'm a single payor guy. And I agree with JOG that the ACA is a tremendous windfall for the private insurance community and find myself confused by constant claims by so called "Prp-Business" Conservatives that it is "Socialism."

Now @Joe back to the other point we discussed...
Is a mandate by the government to make a purchase ever negotiable in the small gov't philosophy? If data could be presented that showed universal coverage would offer substantial health and financial benefits for all citizens could you support it? Or is necessarily a deal with the devil in which we all are destined to drive GM and eat Asparagus?

RJ


Erin O'Brien said...

I am not clicking your links, Joe, although judging from the urls, they look very nasty indeed. Outrage? I'm not outraged. You and Rushbo and your little friends in the links can call women sluts all day long if you choose.

As for focusing on the "small stuff," tough shit. I comment on what I want to comment on. When I want to write a big post about the ACA, I will.

I will say this regarding your fear over GOV mandated asparagus purchases. If I go to the ER with a gunshot wound that threatens my life, they pretty much have to do something about it whether I have any money or not.

If I go to the grocery and tell them I'm reeeealllly hungry and need some asparagus, like, right now! but have no money, they will likely tell me to pound salt.

Now you go on and think about that, Joe.

Anonymous said...

EOB.
Bullshit, this country takes care of those people that really need it. If you go to a grocery store and are begging because of life choices, tough shit, you made your bed lay in it. You want to drink, do drugs, whore around and have kids with no care or thought about them, why does the rest of the population have to pay your bills? Life isn't fair, sorry just the way it is. Mother nature is a bitch.

Peace out.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous-

Bullshit right back atcha. Decent people are homeless and hungry in America right now. There is no scarcity, just self-righteous assholes like you.

Randy Johnson

Erin O'Brien said...

For more information, visit the US Dept. of Veterens Affairs page on homeless Veterans.

Peace out indeed, Anon.

Joe said...

Erin,

I am glad to see you are right about a couple of things. I agree, Letterman, Maher, and Schultz are nasty. There is a word for your position -- hypocrite.

Second, as you state "If I go to the ER with a gunshot wound that threatens my life, they pretty much have to do something about it whether I have any money or not." Indeed that is true. You can thank Reagan for that. It is also the very proof I have offered since 2008 that we don't need the ObabaCare. Thanks for finally admitting the error of your ways.

Joe said...

Randy,

You ask a good question. I cannot say I am for or against a program you envision, The devil is in the details. I have no issue with a hand up. We all need a helping hand. The idea that private charity can take care of everyone is naive, I think. There is also the clear proof that we are raising entire generations on welfare. It is not mere anecdote that while I buy generic foods at the grocery, the person behind me is buying name brands and steak with a EBIT card she pulled from a Coach or Michael Kors purse while talking on their iPhone. I do not expect those on welfare to live in prison camps or wear a Scarlett "W", but anyone who withdraws csh using an EBIT card at a casino should lose their benefits now and forever.

I think i might support a government-sponsored insurance pool for high-risk or catastrophic coverage. Since I am diabetic I worry about pre-existing conditions. I also expect I should pay more -- I am certainly a higher risk. That is how insurance works.

I could never support, on principle alone, any plan that forces me to buy a product or mandating the minimum I must purchase.

The flip side to equal opportunity is that we also have equal responsibility for our actions. Should I choose to smoke, or eat Twinkies for every meal, or stand on metal bleachers in a thunderstorm, it is my decision, my consequences. If I truly don't want babies, then I take measures, or use self control. If I choose not to buy insurance against future illness, then I will have to pay the doctor and hospital for years. It is about choices.

It is not up to the government -- which is our neighbors, friends, family, you, me -- to pay for my bad life choices. To me that is the crux of the issue.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the response. I bet if I decided to open Satan' s Lapdog Craft Store with an employee health clinic offering abortion on demand here in Middle Tennessee I'd be the subject of much ridicule on the "Pro-Business Right" when I said it was just a logical response to a market niche and the demands of those consumers looking for an alternative to Hobby Lobby.

Randy

Anonymous said...

Randy,
Talk about being a self-righteous asshole, you and Mr are top of my list. I can only speak about what I know, here in SC, we do have homeless, and we have shelters and groups to help. Have you ever taken the time to talk to someone who is homeless? Have you ever visited a VA hospital? I have. The only reason people don't get help is because of people like you who thinks its not their job or by their own choice. As for homeless Vets, We elected the people who sent them to war. We set back and watch our elected leadership cut the budget that supports them. Our government made promises in our name and has failed to keep them.

James Old Guy

Anonymous said...

@James

Never aspired to make any of your lists but will answer your question. Since my undergraduate days in the early 70's through the acquisition of my Masters Degree in Social Work in 1983 I have endeavored to be of service to the marginalized and disenfranchised members of our society. I am simply carrying on a legacy passed to me by my father who worked for a Jewish merchant in Birmingham, AL during the 50's and 60's and taught me from an early age not to judge people based on religious ideology or skin color, among other things. Ideas in that part of the country that could get your house bombed. Read a book. Professionally I have managed to stay continuously employed for the past 30 years in healthcare and for the last 5 years have been a contract employee of the Veterans Administration in a Primary Care Clinic in a small town in Tennessee. I don't need your help becoming enlightened. Fuck off.

Randy

Anonymous said...

Nice Resume,asshole.

JOG

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